TRANSCRIPT
0:04
[Music]
0:17
[Music]
0:31
happy new year we’re back welcome everyone to the 17th episode of
0:36
the Mystery Hour with Con Sweeney at our new time of noon Second Lifetime or 3 p.m eastern for you folks in real life
0:44
now to what we’re about today we’re a monthly show based here in Second Life we broadcast live from here
0:50
on facebook and youtube every third monday of the month at 12 p.m
0:55
uh Second Lifetime or pacific time again for you folks in real life we meet mystery authors and others from
1:01
the publishing world to talk about books and the issues facing them today from social and technological change and
1:06
there’s certainly been a lot of those lately I’d like to thank draxtor the prey host
1:11
of the Second Life book club and the drax files radio hour both broadcast from Second Life
1:17
for his original sponsorship and the use of book club island when we first got started I’d also like to thank strawberry linden
1:24
and brett linden for their help in setting the show up and finally my eternal thanks to Becky
1:29
hansen and isabel charon for all their technical assistance in making this happen without you it wouldn’t have been
1:35
possible now our regular viewers may notice that we’re no longer on book club island the
1:42
reason being that there’s a lot going on over there these days and we’re getting set up for our show was becoming a bit
1:47
of an effort so we’ve decided to set up our own studio and here we are now
1:52
allow me to introduce today’s guests Callie Browning and Vera Chan both award-winning contributing writers
1:59
to the recent published anthology MIDNIGHT HOUR featuring short mysteries from members of Crime Writers of Color
2:06
and also I’d like to make a breaking news announcement here we don’t get to do those too often
2:11
that amazon will be offering a $1.99 special on their kindle for the entire
2:16
month of February for MIDNIGHT HOUR and on March 24th the Audible version will also be available so mark your
2:23
calendars you can get it and we have another first here today on
2:28
The Mystery Hour Callie’s a resident of the Barbados and is our first guest participating from
2:33
outside the three-mile limit welcome Callie. Vera has been with us before and is back to talk more about her life as a writer
2:40
as well as her work on MIDNIGHT HOUR welcome back Vera how does it feel to be
2:46
in world in Second Life or as the world is now starting to call it the metaverse
2:51
it’s very cool thanks so much for having us I’m always
2:57
always glad to meet with uh with new writers and authors so um why don’t we start with you Callie
3:03
uh since you’re new to the broadcast could you please tell us about yourself your journey as a writer what motivates
3:08
you to write and what what life has been like as a writer during the pandemic
3:14
sure no problem um so I always say that I am above all else uh beijing author I’m
3:21
also a foodie so anybody who follows me on Instagram or any of my social media platforms I’m always cooking something
3:29
or showing people places that I love to eat and that type of thing
3:35
I primarily like to write historical fiction set in Barbados so there’s always lots of beijing
3:41
culture beijing history involved which I really really love and I also
3:47
excuse me I also love to showcase
3:54
Caribbean culture as well so it’s that’s primarily what I’m about
3:59
in terms of the pandemic the pandemic has been a mixed bag for me in terms of
4:04
writing I have done I’ve had these weird sports where I would get a lot of writing done and i
4:11
would get a lot of appearances and interviews done and then other times when I feel like
4:18
just tapped out so it’s it’s been a mixed bag I don’t know I don’t know how else to describe it
4:25
I think that’s probably how most of us would describe it many writers who we’ve had on the show
4:30
and that I’ve talked to they’ll say you know it’s kind of nice to have several days without being
4:36
bothered by people to write but then when it comes to the social aspects of writing and publishing they say that’s where it
4:42
really it really hurts uh I haven’t met anybody yet who said it’s been a wonderful experience
4:49
so Callie, was it difficult for you to get published in the United States while you’re living
4:55
in another country well I don’t find it is I mean the beautiful thing about the internet is
5:00
that you have literally a world of options and opportunities out there and
5:07
once it comes down to you being able to educate yourself once you’re able to
5:12
educate yourself and and start the publishing process and the marketing process then I think it’s a fairly level
5:19
playing field even if you are outside of the US and the UK
5:27
how has the US market received your stories based in the in Barbados
5:35
uh the US market has been I mean it’s been such such an incredible
5:40
experience the US market has fully really embraced my books and in a really
5:46
in a way that I never thought they would um because like Isaid they’re so
5:51
Caribbean you know I really thought it was it may have been a bit of a culture shock or taste thing where people may
5:57
not have really accepted it but for sure it has because um I’ve been
6:03
mentioned by a couple of fairly big names in terms of magazines like Yahoo
6:10
and Oprah and in the know and a few other publications as well
6:15
also many readers have requested that libraries carry my books as well which is a great
6:21
thing because I’ve always been a fan of libraries so I love that people think that my book is important enough to take
6:28
the time to make requests to ask the library to stock it so for sure in the
6:33
Caribbean in the Caribbean and in the us I have found
6:40
great alliances and great allies and great friends as well so it’s been wonderful
6:46
great uh when we finally get back to normal which Ipersonally feel we
6:52
do you think you become part of the uh the conference the conference writer’s circuit
6:58
um I would love to Iabsolutely would it would be great to
7:04
to really get out there because the the irony is that Ireleased my book in 2019 my first book
7
so you know as you would know 2019 was the last real normal year we’ve had so by
7:17
the time it started to pick up steam and get noticed in the middle of 2020
7:23
you know everything so many things had closed down when there were there weren’t those opportunities to do a lot of the other things I would have liked
7:30
so I am really looking forward to getting back out there well not back over there but getting out there in the first place
7:36
and I got all these really fun conferences and retreats and everything that everyone else has
7:42
really storied and made sound like so much fun well great well Ihope we will be seeing
7:48
you uh up here in the states soon now now a question for both you and Vera how
7:53
did you become aware of Crime Writers of Color and how did uh MIDNIGHT HOUR come to be
7:59
through it I could take a start of that the
8:05
coordinators and I think it was during uh one of those episodes of human interaction Ibelieve that I was at one
8:11
of those conferences and Ijust heard about it someone was talking about it and again that
8:17
although this book is not um officially published by the Crime Writers of Color of course that’s where in the forums we
8:22
were able to uh have discussions about it that was led by Abby vandiver
8:28
and um the crime rates of color is a basically a self-managed associate loose
8:34
association of writers um aspiring authors uh fueled by Kellyee Garrett GigI Pandian and
8:42
Walter Mosley and I can’t remember exactly who um brought it up to me first because I have to say you know my entry into this
8:50
world is relatively recent as well so learning a lot of things at the same time
8:55
at once yeah it’s
9:03
it’s it’s one of the things I’ve been most impressed about with Crime Writers of Color is
9:09
how broad the reach is uh for example Callie have you here uh
9:15
from the uh from the Barbados but I’m speaking with other members of Crime Writers of Color over in the uk and
9:22
we’ll have them on later in the year uh it’s just not restricted to one country
9:28
one particular uh geography and Ifind that you know to be
9:34
incredible I think you know probably given you know the internet and that’s how the world works these days probably
9:40
helped that 50 years ago it might not have been possible to have an organization like Crime Writers of Color
9:46
with this broad adapt or at least as quickly having that depth as quickly as it’s developed
9:54
now since we’re both sitting here in the in the metaverse and I got to keep saying that word I mean Zuckerberg gave it to
10:00
us he’s just exploiting it um let me be accurate there now
10:08
have you two ever met before physically and I know you said while we were chatting before we got going that
10:14
there was a panel discussion but is this the first time you two have been in the same place okay I can’t say physically
10:20
virtually uh we have not met corporeally
10:31
and in foreign you know to echo what Kellye said this is my uh you know my fiction debut and I have yet to sit in
10:38
front of any human being uh to sign anything in mass and um I will say I’ve
10:44
only signed my you know my one story four times actually once uh today with the that’s
10:49
the first non-relative non-best friend and I will say that that um which is baby just as well because the first time
10:56
uh my best friend asked me to sign it my pen ran out I think I made a spelling error I think
11:02
I almost missed my I was like okay I’m not ready for this so perhaps you
11:08
know so I’m hoping for the day when I get to practice how about you Kellye um you know because
11:14
uh what you know khan asked about um about crime medicine I’m actually
11:19
curious how you heard about it as well and then how you jumped on this book
11:25
well um it goes way back I met Abby
11:30
years and years ago when Ihad put out my first novella which I actually unpublished since then but Abby was just
11:37
coming out she just had her first book and we met in a GoodReads group
11:43
right and um and we lost touch for a little bit over the years because I um I you know life
11:50
happens and I fell away from writing for a little bit but then I came back and um but we have followed each other on
11:56
twitter and then we met back up again and then you know she she realized I was writing again Ihad a book code and it
12:02
was doing fairly well and everything and she she asked if I wanted to contribute something
12:08
um the turnaround time was really tight Iremember that and Isent her something by like the next day
12:15
um and she said she said yeah I love it let’s let’s go with it so
12:20
and then she you know she introduced me to the group and everything and said well she or just about the same time she
12:25
mentioned the anthology she introduced me to the group and Ijust thought it was a really
12:32
I love like how khan said there’s no geographic boundary to it it’s really just a place
12:38
where anybody with you know who’s an author of color who’s interested in crime
12:44
can come and really just showcase their work which I really loved so yeah that’s how I found out about the
12:51
group and the project for for our audience uh we’re talking
12:57
about uh Abby Vandiver who’s the editor of the anthology at the MIDNIGHT HOUR unfortunately she’s not with us today
13:03
but she was on our last broadcast in november and encourage you to pick up
13:10
MIDNIGHT HOUR also her books as well as our other two guests today
13:16
and uh Abby has done a fantastic job in bringing this book together especially
13:22
you know given the crazy times that we’re that we’re living in now and you know talking about crazy times
13:28
one of the challenges being a writer um during a pandemic yeah
13:35
put the question out to both of you
13:40
sure I could um for sure um I think from me primarily
13:48
being in a pandemic it it is I think there may be some advantages in
13:54
terms of the fact that everybody is home so it’s actually a little easier to reach most people in some
14:00
ways in terms of the fact that you know everybody’s looking for something to do online and that type of thing
14:07
but on the other hand there’s there’s they’re not the conferences they’re not the the in-person seminars there’s not the
14:14
book fairs and that type of thing everything is virtual now which makes it harder for us to
14:21
to forge really deep connections so I think that is the hardest part also in terms of
14:28
the actual writing process it’s a bit more difficult in some areas to do research because I like to go and get
14:34
some of my research but you know with um abbreviated or truncated opening over certain places
14:41
and there’s less travel and that type of thing that makes it a bit harder to
14:47
get out there and get all the information you’d really love to get what about you Vera
14:53
well it’s kind of a funny situation because Iwork full time Icontinue to work full-time and
14:59
when Iat one point I was actually commuting between two states because I applied for
15:06
a job got it and they said like by the way you need to be based here and so uh it’s always challenging to
15:13
write on the side well I don’t have children Ijust I have a husband I almost said Ijust have a husband I have
15:18
a great husband uh but you know so that does give me time but you know I was devoting time to to commuting you know
15:25
uh by plane um staying at my quote bachelorette apartment which I thought
15:31
would help me write but then um you know there are some challenges there too and then when the pandemic happened
15:37
and people are reevaluating the concept of work and remote work and obviously people understand yes for some jobs you can do
15:44
it from many places to still be very productive and in fact it could be a bit too productive right because there’s no
15:51
the boundaries are less uh obvious um then we can then I thought like well
15:57
now I don’t have to commute I’ve got I’m in one place but then I was staring at a screen right for hours
16:04
and the kind of face-to-face interactions he would have now you have to do it through um you have to mitigate
16:10
it through a screen and so after the end of the day you’re like I can’t I’m so tired I can’t take any more screen time
16:16
but I’m still sort of used to that I don’t I don’t I haven’t since I was a kid written stories by hand right I’ve
16:22
tried the tablets I’ve tried the nice pencils and everything it’s just very hard for me to do but sometimes uh
16:29
what has helped me which is a bit odd is that I made sure to get a kind of a software it’s Ulysses um that lets me
16:37
type in the phone and I never thought I could be able to write a story on the phone but for some reason at least like
16:42
changing the size of the screen sometimes helps or at least I get to like not sit in the same place I go
16:48
someplace else and I can try to squeeze in some time and the other thing that was a big uh
16:54
effect on me is like I like to go to cafes and make more human beings to write it’s it’s a bit
16:59
of a funny way for me to get um you know just just be in the river of humanity but yet not interact with them and i
17:06
could have enough real-life white noise and then all the cafes closed down it was hard for me to write right so it was
17:14
uh even though I wasn’t interacting with people so it was so the pandemic has affected the writing life in ways that i
17:21
uh did not expect you know Vera I can relate to what to what you’re saying I used to live in
17:26
Starbucks I think when the pandemic started they probably lost several points in their earnings per their
17:32
earnings per share and and like you I can work in in a
17:39
Starbucks you know I go in I buy my coffee maybe something to eat grab a table and I can just sit there
17:45
for an hour two and uh I tend to go off hours when there’s not that many people so it’s easy to get the table
17:52
but yeah I know what you mean about being able to work with that white noise of the cafe behind you um
18:04
yes absolutely now I think I may have mentioned both of you I uh one of my other uh functions in life is
18:11
I sit on the board of directors of the New York chapter of Mystery Writers of America and
18:16
one of the major concerns we’ve had as a matter of fact it’s kind of funny I joined the
18:22
board just before the pandemic was declared we had one physical meeting and it’s all been zoomed ever since
18:28
but probably the biggest concern for the uh the board and the chapter has been
18:33
how do we help our riders during the pandemic we used to have monthly meetings we always had a good turnout we
18:40
had anywhere from 70 to 80 people on a regular basis uh we had several social functions
18:45
during the year uh they throw a great holiday party in December and let me tell you for the folks in the audience it’s true writers
18:51
do know how to party
19:03
the problem now is you know we’re experimenting with uh online meetings I’m kind of like the
19:08
zoom master for the chapter uh and we’re thinking about maybe hybrid and every
19:14
time that we think we’re just ready to go back in and start bringing people together another
19:21
letter of the greek alphabet suddenly appears I’m now up to omicron I never thought I’d be able to learn that many letters of that overnight alphabet
19:28
um and you you know I’m some of my clients are writers and Italk with them and
19:34
you know especially the ones who are stuck in Manhattan where they’re sitting in an apartment building you know
19:40
umpteen floors over the street and they’re talking about how half the stores in their neighborhood are closed
19:45
their shopping is difficult the subways which are probably problematic to begin with pre-packaged
19:51
pre-pandemic you know now are they’re cutting back on service because they don’t have the crews people
19:57
are worried about social distancing it’s it’s a tough time out there for uh for writers especially with the
20:03
conferences going uh you know people just don’t get the social interaction and you know I’m I’ve found over the
20:09
years that you know writers are very social creatures I mean yeah there’s this image of the writer in the garrett
20:14
you know riding away scribbling into the night with a candle but there’s a very big
20:20
social element to being a writer yeah there is
20:25
you’re absolutely right now another social
20:31
aspect of writing is when you’re doing a group project like a like the anthology
20:37
what’s the editorial process like to be a writer working with an editor is it a
20:43
matter of you just give your submission and they say thanks and that’s it or is there give and take where you know
20:48
you’re really not getting the theme or could you do something else um
20:54
what’s that like well for me because I’m self-published
21:00
uh I don’t have that my social interaction comes a little bit
21:06
more on the back end in terms of you know you do all the writing you do all the editing you do all the publishing but
21:12
in terms of the marketing part of it I think maybe I maybe the self-published authors that i
21:17
know that we interact more with influencers and bookstore grammars and that kind of
21:22
crowd so I feel like we spend more time doing that and maybe that is where
21:28
the social stuff comes up a bit more um but I don’t know if you very like how
21:34
you manage with the traditional publishing part of it
21:40
well again since I’m still in the my agent is in the submission stage with me I haven’t gone through the
21:46
kind of developmental editing the professional editing the copy editing uh which uh which
21:53
probably has some echoes in the journalism world which I’m more used to in the real days of these papers right you know when you had to push out
21:59
something every day or every week um and now for some people and not for people on digitals every hour sorry uh and uh
22:05
but I actually did live with a universe at a time a moment in time where Ithere was a newsroom infrastructure and
22:12
I know that there’s public houses but cut back there as well for this particular anthology it was
22:18
remarkably easy it wasn’t too easy it was like you know Iturned it in and Ididn’t hear anything I was like
22:23
do Is it okay do Ineed to change anything but um is
22:29
remarkably smooth and I think it’s just because Abby did so much of it uh herself and um
22:34
there was a moment where we she released the draft to all of us so that we could all take a look at it
22:41
and you know and I you know and people who spotted things gave her feedback so this was sort of a group edit moment uh
22:47
which was which was interesting but I yeah but I think this was a much smoother
22:53
um and there wasn’t the many levels of um editing because you know frankly from what I’ve heard right it depends on
23:00
well there’s different I don’t think tiers of books but there’s different investment
23:05
levels of resources that uh publishing houses are giving nowadays right this is
23:10
what I’ve been hearing from everyone and so are there certain types of uh
23:15
bestselling authors that they’ll spend time on although I will say as a reader sometimes you do read a best-selling
23:22
author and over time you realize like huh the editor is not reading it as closely as it used to
23:28
so it’s interesting where that perfect you know how they have to allocate their resources
23:35
let me ask both of you a question this one wasn’t in the the script but uh Ihope you don’t mind but what’s it like
23:42
when you finally see your name in print in a book and you’re holding it in your hand what’s that feeling like
23:51
um you want to go first Vera or uh well again because it’s a it’s a
23:57
contribution to a story and here’s the thing I because I have a
24:02:00
humor novel I’m trying to go enter into a couple of genres right one is mystery one is uh uh
24:08:00
just contemporary fiction um I decided I should use a different name
24:14:00
and uh but not too much and so HC Chan the reason why I use HC Chan HC is
24:19:00
actually my Chinese name and when I was a um newspaper reporter my byline was Vera
24:27:00
HC Chan and Iand so it’s like it’s funny because
24:33:00
like okay that’s my name but kind of not my name uh it’s not the name that I go by every day right and and I will tell
24:40:00
you a little bit more detail than you probably wanted uh the only reason why I started even using HC in my byline
24:46:00
because pre-911 um so I was not born in the United States but I came here when I was six
24:52:00
months old so essentially you know American citizen almost from the get-go but I was trying to get my
24:57:00
passport renewed and because my name on my birth certificate was different than my driver’s license the passport person
25:04:00
was like okay you have to go back and bring back five years of proof that you’re you and at the time I was like oh
25:11:00
my god yeah what is this I could be deported anytime you know I was like you know in my mind and of course I come
25:17:00
back with all my and I’m very anal so Ihad banking statements and I have this and I have that and Ibring it to the
25:22:00
back to the passport agency and of course there’s a different person they’re looking at this pile of stuff they’ve given me like
25:29:00
give it to me but ever since then I’m like I’m putting in the ac but interestingly enough um
25:35:00
I could I have to go to court to legally change my name to add my birth name
25:41:00
because I always went by Vera Chan so uh yeah so that’s a very long complicated answer to say like it’s great it’s great
25:47:00
to see HC Chan in there and Ifind it very funny to see hg chan as well because of all the other uh all the
25:54:00
things Ihad to go through in order to settle on that you you have my sympathies Vera also my
26:00:00
passport right now is somewhere in the bowels of the u.s passport agency I’m just hoping that
26:06:00
sooner or later back home
26:12:00
what about you Kellye what was it like when you first saw your name in print
26:18:00
I feel I felt a little bit of relief almost like you finally got to the end of the
26:25:00
journey and this was the physical manifestation of the late nights
26:30:00
the [Music] the moments I’ve wanted to give up the
26:36:00
hours and hours and hours of research and everything else it really was it felt really even it felt
26:45:00
unbelievable too in some ways so but yeah it’s good I think I’m
26:50:00
get into it a little bit more now um so yeah I’m
26:55:00
really pleased with it good now
27:01:00
Crime Writers of Color how does that help you as authors um
27:06:00
there’s the the feeling of community you know being with other authors uh
27:11:00
you know being writers of color uh you know let’s let’s let’s be honest
27:17:00
it’s not easy for people of color in in this country so you know coming together supporting one another but are there other
27:24:00
uh benefits to being in the group why are there writer groups are there uh
27:31:00
editing anything like that I know you know the pandemic probably put a crimp in all the plans they had going forward
27:38:00
but how else is prime riders of color helping you as writers
27:45:00
it does share radiated characteristics even though it’s a more informal association it does share the same
27:50:00
characteristics of community in which like let me share the experience so that you know uh let me give you some tips let me give
27:56:00
you some referrals I think what’s uh uh very uh also
28:02:00
um liberating about crime rights colors like you get to talk about things that nobody else will understand right it’s
28:09:00
what stays in you know what’s what’s how’s it going said in vegas stays in vegas something like that so uh that’s
28:15:00
where the truth can be told without recrimination um and you don’t feel like you’re being judged um and then at the
28:22:00
same time there’s a sense of greater of a greater mission I think that you know
28:27:00
Ibelong to sisters of crime and that was founded because to give women female authors
28:33:00
greater presence or whatnot right and I think that that’s the same kind of you know when you’re when you’re part of
28:38:00
something bigger when you know that there are obstacles in your way that is may not be there because of talent right
28:46:00
no lack of talent that there are other infrastructural challenges to be addressed and to know that there are
28:52:00
brethren there who understand that and can go through it and can help navigate and perhaps united can go
28:59:00
through uh accomplish something bigger and I think that even the quote small things the podcasts the newsletters the
29:05:00
website the fact that it is a resource for other people who may not be of that community and they want to be helpful
29:12:00
but feel like maybe embarrassed or don’t want to put the burden on others like you know tell me all of you know tell me
29:18:00
all the asian amerI can authors or whatnot like and putting the work on someone else they’re like there’s a resource there and I think that’s where
29:24:00
it really um it’s it’s extremely beneficial um in this especially in this
29:30:00
uh it’s overdue but especially now in this day and age where we’re really paying attention to these uh issues in a
29:36:00
more concentrated fashion good wonderful cali
29:42:00
Ipretty much echo all of your sentiments for sure there is so much that the group provides in terms of
29:49:00
resources hyping each other up sharing each other’s book launches it’s it’s a
29:54:00
really and you think it’s too it’s also a positive space some place where
30:00:00
there’s there’s not a judgment of you know
30:05:00
maybe you know you’re you’re from the Caribbean so your story is less important or you’re
30:11:00
from this place so you know we don’t we’re not really into that it’s really just a place where
30:16:00
there’s upliftment and I think that’s that’s amazing and I love that about it Kellye Ijust want to say that what i
30:22:00
really love about your books and Iplan on reading on reading them is that you’re writing about a place other than
30:27:00
detroit which seems to be like the big you know location go-to location for mysteries thrillers these days so
30:37:00
thank you very much [Music] um Callie what what we’re talking could you
30:43:00
talk about your contribution uh to the uh to MIDNIGHT HOUR and maybe about your
30:49:00
other work uh you know what what inspires you to write uh what
30:54:00
what brought you to writing mystery thrillers in the first place as opposed to historical fiction or you know something
31:01:00
else
31:16:00
what is hI can you hear me yeah Ihear you now great I was I was saying there’s always
31:22:00
some mystery element in my books but primarily Ido tend to lean towards historical fiction as well
31:29:00
so it is that mish-mash where you know the set maybe 50 years ago what
31:35:00
I’m currently working on is set in world war I
31:40:00
but for sure uh what what I think drives me to that kind of time period and and
31:47:00
lifting a Caribbean set in which you say you don’t normally see in mysteries and thrillers
31:52:00
is this country has such an amazing culture and history
31:58:00
and you’re right I mean if you do read books and all of them are set in the same place you do start to feel like
32:04:00
groundhog’s day where everything is like okay this is just only slightly different to what I’ve read but if you have
32:10:00
characters with different backgrounds and experiences and if they’re set someplace that has a different climate
32:16:00
and a different history and a different experience you’re gonna have an entirely new book
32:22:00
you know what I mean it’s not something that’s warmed over or anything one of the things which I loved about
32:29:00
this anthology was some of the characters are chefs um my
32:37:00
character well my two main characters are a prime minister’s wife
32:43:00
and the deputy prime minister so you know because Ido tend to infuse a lot of politics
32:49:00
and social themes into my books so you know I feel like that’s one of the great things that I really really like about
32:57:00
this anthology and that’s what I’d like to put into my own work as well
33:02:00
good now Vera MIDNIGHT HOUR’s been out for a while looking back on it do you have any
33:08:00
thoughts on the the creative process that you were part of that you contributed to and would you do it again
33:16:00
oh yeah for sure and in fact um I’m talking to other people because the story that Idid Icall it
33:22:00
it’s a bit of a satire and Icall it corporate noir and I know a couple of other people who are also in the tech universe who who
33:28:00
write mysteries and they think that’s a great idea for an anthology so I’m trying to match some people in that direction uh I think
33:36:00
that um you know it’s interesting because anthologies I’ve always loved reading
33:42:00
anthologies as well as full-length books etc etc and my current
33:47:00
mystery that I’m shopping um a lot of people love the writing when Isay a lot of people mean editors and
33:53:00
agents and whatnot but they see a challenge in the structure because it’s kind of like Olive Kitteridge right it’s kind of a short story structure it’s a
34:00:00
it’s a series of case files that take place in the 12 12 15 year period and they say it’s because people don’t
34:06:00
read short stories and so it’s just funny like uh you know when you encounter
34:12:00
kind of concepts right uh from different people who are experts with an industry and
34:17:00
everyone’s got a piece of the elephant when they are trying to understand what the reader uh public is you know what the reader
34:24:00
imagination what the reader will do but in terms of the MIDNIGHT HOUR process it was very painless it was I probably am
34:30:00
going to be very spoiled frankly it just was the easiest thing I’ve had to do and I will say that I actually had a story
34:36:00
lying around a short story um and the only change Ihad to make was when the theme was
34:43:00
MIDNIGHT HOURs like okay I’m gonna change it from sunset to midnight and that was the only thing that I had to do
34:49:00
but the essence of the story Idid not have to change at all so it was uh yeah it was it was a very good experience for
34:56:00
me good you know you you mentioned something you said that
35:01:00
you you heard that people say that nobody reads short stories anymore
35:07:00
and you know Ifind that we’ve got anthologies like MIDNIGHT HOUR that get published
35:13:00
regularly um Ithere are
35:18:00
blogs websites now with short stories on them and personally I think that you know the problem is not that people
35:24:00
aren’t reading short stories is that the mediums that used to be there for them magazines uh newspaper I’m dating myself
35:31:00
I can remember when newspapers used to publish uh short stories uh just aren’t there like you were there
35:37:00
when dickies was alive you remember dickens was a lie
35:52:00
um but you know I think that the short story is still a viable form especially now with the uh with the internet and
35:59:00
you know hopefully it’ll come back but you know absolutely Iwant to say one thing like there are so many uh
36:06:00
outlets out there um uh it’s a creator economy right now as they
36:11:00
call it and there’s things like substance and medium and etc etc you know out there where people are publishing their essays and their works
36:18:00
and and and their reports uh it flipboard et cetera I will tell you inevitably when you get a group of
36:24:00
people who who write and they are trying to you will see
36:29:00
a big segment of that will be poetry it will be no it will be fiction like
36:35:00
you know people will gravitate there and they will want to share storytelling in all forms and so
36:40:00
uh this is something that to me is is quite obvious and so it’s a bit of a
36:46:00
challenge when Iwhen I found out that it was perceived as a stumbling block
36:55:00
reviewing your website you know you describe yourself pop anthropologist and then I love that
37:01:00
term what are your impressions about what’s happening in the world of publishing today uh vis-a-vis amazon and the other
37:11:00
online bookstores we’ve got physical bookstores closing all over the place you know e-readers
37:17:00
are very popular traditional media newspapers magazines are going away like we’ve said
37:22:00
um getting book reviews is harder what what are your oVerall impressions
37:28:00
as a pop anthropologist looking at this uh
37:33:00
well okay let’s see I think things come in ways and big
37:39:00
revolutions right um Isee what’s happening in the published industry is exactly mimicking what’s happening what
37:45:00
happened in the journalism world um there was a a reporter named Ben Bagdikian and he
37:51:00
became the dean of at uc berkeley journalism school and he wrote a book called the media monopoly uh where he
37:57:00
predicted the the fewer the concentration of ownership of um organizations of newsrooms of especially
38:04:00
newspapers and every time he had to reprint his book he had to downsize his
38:09:00
predictions from 12 to 5. now we see it as happening right in the book publishing industry at the same time you
38:15:00
see technology trying to um you know address the gaps right and i
38:22:00
think that when um and this is what’s happening in the journalism world this will happen the publishing world is when
38:27:00
they start to cross that bridge right now it’s almost like two separate you know castles with giant modes
38:32:00
surrounding them and it seems like oh no what they do is different it’s like no it is information it is storytelling it
38:39:00
is news and and how you tell the story in the in the manner which you love the story yes there will be nuances where
38:45:00
the medium will affect the message but in the end you can leVerage that um and so I’m thinking I’m hoping that
38:51:00
the publishing houses will do so I think that you brought up earlier about the pandemic and the challenges of um
38:58:00
zoom meetings and whatnot Isee this as the same as y2k in that is a forcing
39:05:00
function for people to adapt and even though you know 2000 went into 2001 with
39:12:00
minimal disruption it was because people upgraded their computers and their
39:18:00
infrastructure and I’m hoping that the pandemic is making people who are normally
39:23:00
certain types of who who consume or sell or package information a certain type of way will
39:29:00
look over and go like oh wow think talk kind of has a lot of people wow there’s a company called cameo in which stars
39:36:00
like sell greetings and you know people will pay for that right oh there’s something called wattpad
39:42:00
which just sold itself where it’s a bunch of you know a lot of twelve-year-old girls go there but plus twelve-year-old girls uh and it’s kind
39:48:00
of a billion dollar global business and so there’s no reason not to be able to
39:53:00
leverage that and by the way bookstores came back there was a series of um
39:59:00
huge uh you know before amazon there was the complaints about walnut books and barnes and noble what not and they they
40:06:00
said and then some book starts to close but then many came back and now there’s non-profit newspapers that are coming
40:12:00
back and so now the entrepreneurial instinct is coming because we’re being enabled by this technology so in brief
40:18:00
I am very optimistic but it will be painful it will be painful as i’ll get
40:23:00
out as people try to um understand which to invest in and where to grow
40:30:00
um and and then we’ll have this kind of I think it’ll be like a bulge on both
40:35:00
ends with the squeezed middle and hopefully that middle will fill up and then people can just kind of uh
40:42:00
you know come to an agreement that um that some of the rules need to be
40:48:00
rewritten and perhaps shouldn’t have been rules in the first place thank you no I agree there’s
40:55:00
I think that there is there’s a transformation taking place
41:00:00
unfortunately you know in that transformation you know people are going to be affected we’re going to see
41:06:00
journalists people working in the publishing industry losing their positions and despite what some of our politicians
41:12:00
may tell us it’s not that easy to retrain people to take somebody who’s maybe for 30 years worked at a newspaper
41:18:00
and say hey well guess what we’re going to make you now make you a blogger good luck there um
41:24:00
so yeah I think there’s it’s going to be interesting road ahead of us as as we go forward which leads me to my
41:32:00
to my next question for both of you how how difficult is it for writers to get
41:37:00
started today Callie can I start with you please sure
41:43:00
writers have you know I tell people all the time i
41:48:00
think there sometimes is a disconnect between the art of creating and the art of
41:54:00
managing your creations so yes it’s easy enough to
41:59:00
write a great book and write a great story and even maybe to do some research and see what covers
42:06:00
are trending in your niche and to put an entire package together
42:11:00
but the truth is that really is only about 20 of the process
42:17:00
the other eighty percent involves the branding and marketing and everything else and that is always
42:22:00
very difficult so that’s what it’s easy to get published to make it sustainable
42:27:00
there has to be a switch in the mindset
42:33:00
or some alliances between you know authors and more business-minded people to
42:40:00
you know to create because like for example like with lucy score she’s um she’s done fairly well for herself her
42:47:00
husband manages her and then there are a lot of other authors whose husbands or wives like mark dawson his wife
42:52:00
assistant as well you know it’s really important to find these synergies and to create them because it’s it’s
42:59:00
difficult to become a writer who actually makes money from
43:04:00
writing so yeah there there’s there’s a lot of different paths which you either have to
43:10:00
wear and wear very well or you have to to to find a way to outsource you know
43:16:00
the hats that you don’t fit you you make a very good point there
43:22:00
it’s something that I’ve Iwrote about on the blog for many crime writers a number of years ago and
43:27:00
many writers who I’ve been meeting through this program have been talking about that it’s harder and harder to make a living
43:34:00
as a writer uh a matter of fact virtually every writer I know has got a day job
43:39:00
um so the idea of the starving artist in a an addict someplace is probably an old one
43:45:00
but uh it’s the economics have definitely changed in this industry and I think
43:52:00
it’s working against the uh the creative side especially what about uh
43:58:00
you Vera um but how difficult do you think it is for rogers to get started
44:04:00
I actually agree with both of you um and i’ll say it this way it is extraordinarily easy
44:10:00
to get your writing out there uh it is extraordinarily difficult to
44:16:00
live on that writing and it is extremely difficult to create good writing right
44:22:00
and not to say that a beautifully composed tweet isn’t as about it
44:28:00
you know it has its value an essay in the various uh ways that you can um
44:33:00
you know iterate out there from a newsletter to a blog to whatnot right all these are incredibly valuable but i
44:40:00
will say too we live at a time where we have so much mass entertainment and digital distractions
44:48:00
and this is where Isound a little cranky despite me being in technology and this is the analogy I would say i
44:54:00
would bring up there is always the story of the kid who hurt himself or had polio or
45:00:00
something like that right and had to be sequestered for months and by themselves um and they become
45:08:00
they became an incredible talent I think Robin Williams might have had like one of those back stories right
45:13:00
these days um if you’re ever uh like in a pandemic you’ve got Netflix
45:20:00
you’ve got xbox you’ve got like the internet itself you’ve got all these micro entertainments that distract you
45:27:00
from the craft of writing so I know that’s not quite an exact answer to what you’re saying khan but Ijust feel like
45:33:00
you were saying you’re asking how easy is get started as a writer I think it’s very easy if you don’t expect to get
45:39:00
paid so much but but what you put out there I think is als has become very challenging as well
45:46:00
because of the multiplicity of outlets it’s a give-and-take okay good good II get some great
45:53:00
expressions from you Vera micro entertainments I’m going to use that one again thank you
46:00:00
any any advice uh from both of you for writers who are starting out or who are trying to uh get
46:06:00
published today sure I would
46:12:00
say you have to truly commit to this in a in a very very serious way
46:19:00
um there’s there’s no half measures with writing I think we were talking earlier about the
46:25:00
possibility of you don’t have to necessarily type you could use voice and text but there are hacks
46:31:00
but without a doubt the time and the commitment and the effort and the
46:37:00
creativity and ingenuity you can’t skimp on those so I would say
46:43:00
to any writer you you can do it once you’re willing to to commit in a
46:48:00
very serious way thank you here I think that you need to know
46:55:00
what you will be happy with uh are you gonna be happy with not being able to do it all the time what are the trade-offs
47:02:00
you want to make if you do uh if you have to know yourself like Ihate to do marketing for myself it’s
47:09:00
just like ah it’s so it’s a it’s the most dreadful process you can imagine so if Iwere to do Callie’s thing I would
47:16:00
have to I would have to hire someone I know I would um I could do it for someone else I can’t do it for myself so
47:22:00
I think it’s just an examination of knowing that do you want it to be a business
47:27:00
and if you understand that it is a business then yes you have to commit and know yourself as to what you will really
47:33:00
do and you really want right and uh either and don’t beat yourself up if you’re like Ihate to be on social media
47:39:00
okay fine then find another way to reach the audience because they’re not always
47:44:00
on you know your writing may not be the type of audiences on twitter or facebook
47:49:00
or instagram or whatnot so you just have to find out who your who your your followers would be so it’s
47:57:00
just it is a matter of just understanding who you are what you’re willing to put up with and if you aren’t
48:02:00
willing to put up with that much then accept it and then just try to find help if you can
48:07:00
thank you guys we’re getting ready to come to the end here but could you tell us about
48:13:00
your future projects what what can we expect to see from you coming out next
48:19:00
you you want to go first Vera uh yeah actually you know what my computer keeps
48:24:00
wanting to go sleep so where’d you go first and then I get my computer okay okay no worries that’s fine um I’m
48:31:00
currently working on a new book called beneath the sun let’s see it’s set in world war Iit’s actually it’s more of
48:38:00
a novella or novella not sure I haven’t finished it yet so I’m not sure what the lengths will be
48:43:00
um but that’s that’s what we said during world war two and it’s gonna
48:49:00
chronicle the time when uh germany you bought bombed one of our
48:55:00
bays down here so it’s something that I don’t think a lot of people really know about and I really wanted to
49:01:00
go into it and put some characters into it and flash it out and you know make it really exciting so I’m
49:07:00
excited about that sounds like it’s gonna be a great read here
49:12:00
um so I am working on a parody and it’s funny because calIs one of the history
49:19:00
fiction author people types are stupendous because of the amount of work
49:24:00
they have to do to make so many details precise I uh I think it’s from keeping a
49:29:00
report he’s like ah don’t make me do more research so I’m actually doing a parody in which it’s kind of like uh
49:36:00
john ivanovich and mcvein of this um unincorporated area that has seen uh
49:43:00
these killings where um this the presumed killer has given warnings
49:50:00
in advance of these deaths in like horrible business impenetrable business jargon so that people didn’t even know
49:55:00
that these were really murders or are they or is it a troll and I am creating like all these kinds of
50:01:00
fake areas in Northern California on incorporated areas
50:07:00
I’m really envisioning law enforcement after the pandemic and post-social justice there’s all these things that are making it actually a tad difficult
50:14:00
for myself I have to say instead of just telling a straight history but so that I could like hit a lot of issues while um
50:20:00
and I guess this is the nature of satire right is uh is uh also so many institutions of
50:26:00
which to make fun sounds like another good one look forward to it and hopefully both of you will come back when your your books are
50:33:00
out and tell us about them so we’re coming to the end of the program now so I’d like to thank both my
50:39:00
guests uh Callie Browning and Vera Chan for for joining us today uh I certainly
50:44:00
found it to be very informative and always entertaining to hear about books that they’re writing on in the worlds that they inhabit uh especially
50:51:00
you know calI you know our first guest from outside the three mile limit and Ihope to see you and
50:57:00
many more like you in the uh in the future uh sorry
51:02:00
sam looking forward to it for sure good and uh to my audience I’d like to
51:08:00
uh thank you for joining us uh remember you can uh see this on our youtube
51:13:00
channel the mystery hour with uh khan sweeney we’ll be back here uh
51:18:00
next month uh with our next guest uh also from Crime Writers of Color Anton
51:24:00
Floyd uh he’ll be talking about his latest work that’ll be on september 21st
51:29:00
one point on the scheduling note uh we’re going to be a little bit later that day it’ll be at
51:35:00
2 p.m Second Lifetime or pacific standard time so we’re going to end the live broadcast
51:40:00
now please contact me at con p sweeney at submitti.com if you have any suggestions
51:46:00
for panelists ideas for shows or wish to participate yourself I’m learning that putting on a show
51:53:00
like this isn’t easy so if you’d like to volunteer to help out with our stage crew please let me know and thank you
51:58:00
again for joining and we’ll see you again next month stay safe